Cultivating an audience, with special guest Tom Merritt

[00:00:00] Tom: I've kind of always inventing show ideas and always listening. The way I know a show is good is when I'm listening to it, I'm like, oh, I want to, I want to be in that conversation like that. That's what makes a good podcast.

[00:00:24] Mark: I'm Mark Steadman. And this is our season for. Uh, that doesn't mean we're going to go away entirely over the next few weeks, but we might be a little less frequent in our episodes and they won't be regular ones with. Uh, speaking of Brendan, he'll be with us a little later in the show to follow up on the search for my new favorite podcast.

[00:00:43] Uh, some exciting news for us at least, and some thoughts on pod fading, but work, you can off this week's episode with an interview I did with Tom Merritt, creator and cohost of the daily tech news show, which has nearly 5,000 backers on. Tom's been making a daily tech news podcast of some Stripe for over a decade.

[00:01:01] And the latest incarnation, which started in 2014 has also spawned daily tech headlines, which was an early adopter of anchor and the Alexa family of devices and detain us labs, a series of more informal episodes about tech-related stuff like gaming and. The show is mostly funded via Patrion. Although the public feed recently moved over to a cast, but backers get access to their own RSS feed, which carries a show now called good date internet, uh, that encompasses the pre-show chat and ad free version of DTMS proper.

[00:01:33] And then the post show rapper. DNS is recorded live. So I started by asking Tom about its approach and whether DNS is a podcast in its own, right, or a live internet radio show. That's also been made available through

[00:01:46] Tom: RSS. That's an interesting question because both have been true and are true in various instances across its history at the moment.

[00:01:53] Daily tech news show is a podcast that we record live. So we don't go back and edit it. So you are getting a live to as they used to say tape, uh, situation, but it is meant to be a show that is a podcast that you download and consume in around 30 minutes. The pre and post show around that have kind of turned into their own show, uh, that on our Patrion, we call good day internet.

[00:02:20] And that is much more just us. Talking, uh, and, and, and much more, just a, a, a live conversation that we've turned into a show. I don't know what it

[00:02:30] Mark: is about that particular show, um, set up, but as soon as it got sort of formalized into its own thing, I found. I've I've enjoyed it even more. I think it now feels more special because it's got its own little name and there's just something nice about that.

[00:02:47] That, uh, I very much enjoy sort of, oh yeah, I get my tech news, but then I get to hear what food people are talking about and making a cookbook. And, you know, that's

[00:02:56] Tom: interesting that you say that because I think there really is something psychological about putting a name on it and putting some intention behind.

[00:03:04] That did that affected us as well, uh, before it was just sort of like, oh, I'm recording now, but we wouldn't do anything special. Uh, and there might be long periods of silence, but now there's this feeling of like, oh, well we, we, we need to talk. We need to have a conversation, but we don't need to prepare.

[00:03:20] So, uh, I don't know that it feels more, it feels livelier that we know people are listening. But at the same time, it's more informal than daily tech news show, which has a rundown and stories we have to hit. And all

[00:03:32] Mark: of that impact on your energy levels, uh, at the end of the recording, you know, because you're, you're still having to be on not quite as, as you say, not quite as formal, but do you find that, that, that takes a little bit more out

[00:03:42] Tom: of you?

[00:03:43] Yeah, probably a little bit, but. Not much. Uh, we w it, the thing that has always started to sound negative the way it was about to put the thing, that's always tired me about DNS, but the thing that draws the most energy out of me is the 30 minutes of tech news. That's where I concentrate. So in some ways it's it's yes, I have to be on for longer, but on the other hand, There's also this relief afterwards, like, oh, okay.

[00:04:10] We're, we're done with the serious part, whether it's done with the part where we have to be extra careful about what we say, because we're trying to get things right. And now we can talk about Brianne Triscuits and it's, it's sort of a counterpoint that lets us recover. I think I liked that

[00:04:25] Mark: those are sort of three distinct words, but Briana Triscuits sounds like a game of Thrones character.

[00:04:31] Tom: Ah, yes, she was, uh, one of the warriors for the first men. Yeah. I

[00:04:36] Mark: had 10 minutes. Um, so what can you walk us through, uh, putting, um, a daily shell like this together? What, what, what happens from when you get up and, well, obviously let's not go too far into it.

[00:04:47] Tom: Sure. Sure. So at six 30, I wake up and take the dogs out into the backyard.

[00:04:53] Uh, I I've actually broken it into two parts, which have allowed me to do two shows. So I do daily tech headlines, which is a five minute show. That's not really part of DTS, but it's tied into the preparation of DNS because it's me taking all of the news stories of the day. And on the day, Sarah does it.

[00:05:10] It's Sarah doing the same thing. Uh, Figuring out. Okay. These are the most likely ones that people would be interested in that we can explain. Uh, and we write those up and that's what I did right before we started recording this. I, I recorded the four minute long headline wrap-up that goes out as a podcast that goes out to Amazon echo, et cetera.

[00:05:30] Uh, and then I will take, uh, those stories, put them in the daily tech news show dot. And we'll start the process of figuring out well, which one of those should actually go into daily tech news show. And there's a different standard there with daily tech headlines. It's this is of the day, and it's interesting, uh, on daily tech news show it's we can have a little bit of a conversation about it.

[00:05:52] There's something to discuss. So there will also be stories that I will have found while preparing for headlines that are appropriate for headlines, because they are news per se, but maybe there are trends piece. A great example was yesterday. I, we did a, a discussion piece. About an ARS technical article, uh, where the author had done a great job describing what's going on with chips and AI.

[00:06:14] It wasn't newsy, but it gave us a launching point to have a discussion about what he was saying about that market. So that belongs in daily tech news show. So essentially. If, you know, from in the morning I do daily tech headlines, then I'll take a break and do some other things. And then around about 10 o'clock, uh, we'll start circling back up in our slack and discuss what should go in that rundown.

[00:06:34] And for the hours before the show were figuring out that rundown, then assigning out who should write what amongst us, uh, getting it all in place. Sarah puts in the email, uh, Roger tidying up all of the introductions and everything. And then around one o'clock Pacific time. We'll sit down and start the hangout, make sure all the technical stuff is working.

[00:06:55] Make sure we have all the files we need to play. And that we're on the same page. As far as the run of the show, uh, at around one 15, we start recording good day internet and start talking about Briana Triscuits. Uh, and then, uh, I've started to say that as if she is a character. Uh, and then at one 30 we do daily tech news show, uh, around two o'clock that's done.

[00:07:15] And, uh, then we, we do more post show for good day. Uh, while I publish daily tech news show. Uh, and, uh, and then we're done, that's the hardest thing to deal with other people who want to talk to me about, uh, and I realized, as I was saying that it might feel this is pointed at you and it's not it's it's there, there are all kinds of meetings and things is explaining that no, really.

[00:07:38] 10 30 until two 30. I can't do anything else. I'll throw Veronica Belmont on the bus under the bus. So you don't feel so bad. Uh, when DTLs first started, she kept saying, well, we need to talk to this person and they can talk at noon. And I was like, well, I can't talk at noon because I'm, you know, preparing the show and it takes a while for people to, to, to realize that because.

[00:07:57] There there's preparation that goes on all the time for the show, but they're big with a daily show. Didn't never do a daily show because you're stuck having to do it every day.

[00:08:11] Mark: there's a quote from your Patrion page. And we'll talk a little bit about Petra on later, um, which, uh, is working with the audience to make the show. That's something

[00:08:19] Tom: that I've taken from back when I worked at tech TV, uh, in the early two thousands through buzz out loud at CNN tech news today, a twit, uh, which is your show is better when you include the audience in it.

[00:08:31] Uh, and that can mean different things for different shows, but for daily tech news show, a lot of the time it's getting that instant feedback from our discord or slack or our chat while we're doing the show, which gives us an insight into how people are reacting to our discussion so that we can. Uh, accommodate that and say, oh, well, somebody might think, we mean this.

[00:08:48] Let me explain that. Uh, it can mean somebody writing in, for instance, yesterday on the show, we had someone from India writing in about a story we had done about WhatsApp being used to spread misinformation and they had an on the ground. Here's my example. Here's what I know from living in India about why that's happening.

[00:09:06] That's a perspective we could never have. So it's, it means all of those sorts of things, which is, you know, Are part of the show. If you listen to it, if you want to be, you don't have to be. And that helps make it better.

[00:09:20] Mark: I don't know if you've ever seen this. There's a wonderful, um, it's a few years old now, but it's a wonderful infographic, uh, which is, uh, called the podcast universe.

[00:09:28] And it's this incredible, uh, piece of work that shows how every everyone's sort of everyone in a major podcasting, uh, sense how they connect to other shows and. It's interesting. Looking like looking at networks like relay FM, which feel like there are lots of crossovers, but you don't see that. And one of the things I was wondering is are you looking to grow your existing pool of audience or do you want to bring people in from other pools into your pool as it were?

[00:10:01] Yeah, I,

[00:10:02] Tom: that, that is a tactic in my, in the way I look at it, uh, to achieve. Other things that I want to do, which is figure. Interesting ways to present this information. So we're always refining daily tech news show. One of the reasons I brought on any co-hosts was it was a lot to do for one person. And I needed someone that I could bounce off of.

[00:10:24] That was good at it. Uh, we, we, we would have guests on from the very beginning. Some of them were good at podcasting. Some of them were just good at, at, at knowing their beat. Uh, and it became a little bit. Uh, nerving to, to have to adapt depending and carry the conversation. If it was someone who was like, I really know about this topic.

[00:10:42] So if you ask me about that, I'm great, but otherwise, you know, I'm not going to have a lot to say. Uh, so bringing in co-hosts help with that. Bringing in Sarah made that even better because now I could actually take a day off. And there's someone who can be, who can carry the ship without us scrambling to figure out not that there were others who couldn't do that, but they weren't in the practice of doing it.

[00:11:00] Having someone with me every day means that when either one of us has gone, we don't miss a beat. So I like that we've been able to maintain that, but I also want to do other types of shows within DTS. Uh, and, and the reason I went through that long explanation of co-hosts and guests is there are people I would love to talk to that don't belong on daily tech news show.

[00:11:21] Daily tech news show is for people who can comment along with us about the news of the day. And there are people who are really interesting to interview and talk to, uh, but they really need to be interviewed. Not be a commentator. So I I've done some of those as part of DTS labs that sort of our experimental section, but I don't have as much, uh, ability to do that yet as I would like.

[00:11:48] So growing the audience, growing the revenue, all of that are tactics that say, ah, if I want to start an interview series, I can use those levers to help me get the resources. I need to be able to do that. It's it's

[00:11:59] Mark: useful that you, you bring up, uh, things like the data and the slabs, because, um, I find the, the aesthetic difference between sometimes this is between networks and sometimes it's between different styles of shows or different presenters bring their own style.

[00:12:13] Is there a particular reason that you decided to go for that sort of straight one-shot live to tape thing, as opposed to doing something like something like this, which might be. A little more heavily edited laziness,

[00:12:25] Tom: really more than anything, I'm not even lying. Like, uh, it's just so much easier to go live to tape.

[00:12:33] Uh, and I think that grows out of my background, which was doing radio. You don't get a second take your, your live all the time. Uh, and then when I worked at tech TV doing live television, same thing, you're alive. Uh, and, and there is an absolute truth to the fact that when you know, you're live. You screw up less as you know, your life.

[00:12:57] And as soon as you start recording, you will allow yourself to make mistakes. Daily tech headlines is not live. I very often have to record it two, maybe three times. And Sarah has the same experience because I make mistakes that I would never make on daily tech news show or. I make a mistake and stop.

[00:13:13] Whereas on daily tech news show, if I, if I make a little verbal flub, I just keep going. So that comes out of the training that comes out of the experience. And because of that, it allows me to be lazy and say, Hey, we don't need to spend the extra time doing the editing because we can, we can pull it off live.

[00:13:29] And therefore that allows us to use that time to research, come up with show ideas, uh, read the stories, et cetera.

[00:13:38] Mark: Uh, you were an early adopter of a Patriot, um, back in 2014, what does management and upkeep of

[00:13:45] Tom: that feel like my thinking around it has changed as I've used it. Uh, I very much saw it at the beginning as, as a, as a donation mechanism.

[00:13:54] Uh, and, and so. When a lot of people started to have trouble with patron because they didn't feel like they were providing them the things they wanted. I, I was looking at it like, Hmm. The thing I want is person to be able to press a button and donate money to the show and they give me that. So what else do you want?

[00:14:08] Uh, but Patrion very, very wisely has stepped up to the plate and provided the ability to deliver better perks, uh, add in this or that. And, and so I feel like. Patrion has become a community membership tool, uh, as much as a fundraising tool. So that requires community management that requires being in there and talking to people and engaging them and providing them valuable perks, uh, for, for being a member and making them feel.

[00:14:36] Uh, not even just making them feel, but actually making them part of the community, uh, which is work that th that is a job in and of itself. That's why a lot of bigger networks actually have a person in charge of that for them. Uh, and, and maybe someday I'll get to the point where I would do that. But the other thing about Patrion is unless you're giving them something big that they all want, it's really hard to move this.

[00:15:00] Past a certain level. So when DTN has started, just the idea of supporting the show is enough to get us to a certain level. And then we level. And then adding contributors was enough to say yes. So I want Patrick Basha. I want Veronica Belmont. I want Scott Johnson on the show that allowed them to get up.

[00:15:15] And then we S we leveled off for a year or more until we added Sarah Lane. And then that was big enough to get people up. So there's a psychological thing to it of, well, do I want to constantly do stunts? Uh, or lock myself in to only doing more things, if enough people in the audience want them and are willing to back them at a higher level.

[00:15:35] Uh, and, and that, that, that is a question if, especially if all of your revenue is coming from Patrion, which is one of the reasons that I have changed the model to allow ads that I don't read and don't even know what they are on the public feed, because that will be discretionary income. That we can use for different things that maybe not everybody even knows they want, but we can try stuff.

[00:16:01] Whereas with Patrion, you're locked into, if we hit this milestone, then we will do it. And if we don't hit this milestone, we won't do it. And that doesn't allow for a lot of flexibility. You

[00:16:10] Mark: feel pressure to add stuff that only the patrons get

[00:16:14] Tom: access to. Yeah. I try not to overdo that because then it becomes a job.

[00:16:20] It is, is its own thing. It isn't supporting the show anymore. It's supporting itself. And that is a perfectly reasonable way to do it. Lots of people do run their patrons patriotic that way. I have always preferred to say what you're getting from supporting the show is the show. And we will then try to give you some cool things that, that thank you.

[00:16:42] Um, but aren't particularly labor intensive. Uh, so good day. Internet is an example of that. We're going to do that anyway. We're gonna. So pressing record, uh, just means like, oh, with, without a lot of extra work, we can give you something that you wouldn't get otherwise. And it's, and it's something that, that people seem to enjoy.

[00:17:01] Uh, same for the weekly column. I'll, I'll write up some, some hot takes on news of the week and send them out to people at the $5 a month level. Uh, and again, that's, that's something that I enjoy doing. It's it kind of goes right in with preparing for the show anyway. Uh, so, uh, you know, some people get value out of that and, and having a slack, having a discord, all of that stuff is I think not adding a whole lot of labor, but delivering a whole lot of value or fun or whatever, to people and

[00:17:30] Mark: ultimate goal that you want to achieve, you know, is there an ultimate milestone or something that you think, okay, that's it, that's Patrion a big.

[00:17:37] We we've we've dated.

[00:17:39] Tom: Yeah, no, not exactly. I, I I've over the years, I've kind of tried to figure out why I don't work that way. Uh, I'm not particularly goal-oriented and I have some friends who are really like, what are your goals? What are your goals? I'm like, I don't know, uh, I'm opportunity oriented. I, I prefer to look at what's available and what's possible.

[00:17:58] And then move towards a kind of. Pick the path as it is. It appears in front of me. Uh, and that's the way I've gone with daily tech news show though. If I have a goal it's to make it sustainable, to make it feel like all we have to do is do a good show and this will work. Uh, and, and. We're partway there.

[00:18:17] Uh, there, there are little things that we can tweak along the way to make that work even better. But I just want, I will probably do some version of a daily tech news show, no matter what happens. So it's a matter of figuring out how to, how do I make this work so that I can. Have it be my job. And so far I've lucked into figuring that out.

[00:18:39] Mark: So you move the public feed over to our cast. Um, and we, uh, on bit rates, uh, Brendan and I, and, and I think one or two others have talked our until we're blue in the teeth about, uh, ad injection and various things like that. And so, um, I'd love you to talk us through. That process or that, that decision.

[00:18:57] Yeah. I think

[00:18:57] Tom: a lot of people have misunderstood my position on ads and I'm probably partly to blame for that, uh, by not making it clear or maybe even, you know, riding on the coattails of the misunderstanding in some parts, but I've never been against ads in the show. What I haven't liked is having to read the ad myself, uh, and therefore inserting myself into.

[00:19:19] And the problems that can cause when I'm covering something that is even adjacent to that. So for instance, a tech news today at twit, we had Ford as an advertiser. They weren't necessarily endemic to tech news, but there were occasions when we certainly were covering Tesla and it felt weird to be doing a Ford ad and be like, well, maybe that's affecting subconsciously what I'm saying about Tesla.

[00:19:40] What I liked about a cast, uh, and I was introduced to it because of Nate lengths and adding it to text messages. Was that I would never know what the ads are. They would just show up. And the only way I know what's in that, what's in what ad is in there is if I go listen to one, or if you tell me, uh, in which case, you know, there is a little bit of influence there, but it's much less.

[00:20:02] I don't have a relationship. I'm not selling it. I'm not reading it. I'm not recommend. Uh, I actually liked the host read ads in shows where it's okay, where it's a pop culture show or something where I'm not doing news, but in daily tech news show, I'd rather that be separated. So, uh, I, I liked that idea and the ability to just have.

[00:20:22] Happened without my knowledge opened an opportunity to say, okay, well, if you were getting the show without supporting us on Patrion, uh, you, you will get some ads sometimes in that show. Um, the flip side of that is I now have to have a separate feed for patrons that says, Hey, you know, you're supporting us directly.

[00:20:41] So you shouldn't have to hear the ads. And we provide that as well. Do you do mid-roll ads? Uh, that, that was a nice thing that, that they, cause they do want you to zoom and roll out. And, uh, I got them to agree to not make us do mid-roll ads because I find those to be disruptive. I mean, ads are disruptive.

[00:21:00] Anyway, that's the point. If an ad is not disruptive it's it's not doing its job because it's not catching your intent. It should be when an ad is perfectly done, something that you didn't mind hearing about because it's targeted you properly. And we all know that that, that dream is not yet achieved perfectly.

[00:21:15] Uh, but yeah, I, I, I don't think, uh, mid-roll ads would be very effective to be honest, if you had

[00:21:20] Mark: any feedback so far, because I know it's not been a huge amount of time that you've been doing this, but, um, has there been any. So far.

[00:21:29] Tom: Yeah, there has, um, most of the audience, uh, responded to me talking about it ahead of time.

[00:21:36] I talked about it on our quarterly Hangouts that we do. I talked about it in the pre and post show. I mentioned it in a survey. Uh, I've talked about it in the slack. Uh, and, and most people were understanding there, there were. A few people that even objected and of the people who objected most of them said, but I understand why you want to do it.

[00:21:55] And it makes sense. Uh, cause I went through all my reasonings. What has happened since it had launched is that people who didn't hear me talking about it in any of those places have gotten miffed in a few cases, in a couple of cases because they didn't feel like I told them about it. They didn't feel that I was transparent enough about it.

[00:22:12] So, so I have had an, an issue. A couple of people getting upset that this suddenly was sprung on them. Uh, and then feeling like when I said, well, Hey, I talked about it here, here, and here. They felt like I was being snotty or, or that, uh, you know, that, that I was saying, well, it's your own fault. Uh, and really, I was just trying to say, I tried to tell you, and I apologize that you didn't hear about it.

[00:22:32] So, so that's something that I've needed to learn. Uh, for the most part, uh, there, there are the majority of people that seem to have understood why we made that change and we'll evaluate it as it goes

[00:22:49] Mark: and that is Tom merit positively, man, a massive thanks to Tom, obviously for taking the time out of what you've already had. A very busy morning. I put some more questions to some which you'll hear in a couple of weeks as one of our off season episodes. But for now let's head into our usual shenanigans.

[00:23:07] I usually record everything from my home studio, but this week I chatted to Brendan from podium's new office in the center of Birmingham. I don't have a studio there. So I was using a zoom recorder. Turns out, suffered an epic fail right in the middle of our recording. So what you'll hear is Brendan's recording of me via my apple AirPods.

[00:23:27] Anyway, we had a really good chat and I thought it'd be a shame to miss it. Thanks to my own screw up. So let's get cracking with the chat we recorded on Wednesday and crucially before England to one defeat by Croatia coming

[00:23:40] Tom: up, watch it, watch it, watch it. It's going to move.

[00:23:49] Brendan: So we got an email from, uh, I believe it's pronounced Joe CIM, Robert who created, um, a little tool called cast rewinder at rewind dot. And, uh, and it pretty much says exactly what I was hoping for in my dreams, which is just amazing that a listener responded with with, uh, just putting that together. So what it does is you can put in a, an RSS, uh, any podcast feed and it will, um, let you.

[00:24:19] The frequency. You want to listen to it at like, whether it's every day or once a week or once a month and a couple other options. And then it'll spit out a, a new feed for you to take to your podcast player and let you CA catch up on old episodes from either the beginning or whatever episode is set at to start from.

[00:24:40] And, uh, it is a super cool little, a tool I'm going to be using this all the time. Yeah, absolutely. So last week I recommended a, we fixed space junk to you. Did you have a chance to

[00:24:49] check

[00:24:49] Mark: that out? Nope, because this is the first time I've completely reneged on homework. So, uh, that episode went out on Friday and, uh, that was when I, I edited it.

[00:25:05] And, um, so Wednesday I moved into my new office space. Well, Wednesday I checked out the new office space had my induction Thursday. I actually moved my equipment in and did a little bit of work. And then I have. Uh, I think I then had a thin, um, and then Friday I was working, editing our podcast and then going home and preparing for a two day, um, podcast festival, and then running festival.

[00:25:33] And then Monday I had to have. Um, so, uh, that's my excuse for why I haven't been .

[00:25:40] Brendan: So how was the, um,

[00:25:42] Mark: it went really well. It was fun. We had a wonderful, um, really warm audience. Like, you know, we had a lot of destruction on the Saturday because, um, I don't know if you've heard Brendan, the term football. Yeah.

[00:25:55] So we had to, um, welcome football on the next leg of its journey, uh, home, um, which meant not shins, um, England, uh, sweetened match in, uh, the cinema that we were, um, hold at the festival. So we did that. And then, um, we did, uh, the rest of the festival and then Sunday, we had five shows and it all ran like clock work.

[00:26:17] Um, you know, not a, not a, not a hiccup in sight and everyone had a lot of fun. Um, And, uh, people have already started posting the episodes from their, um, their live performances. And, you know, if you're interested in, in hearing what Birmingham sounds like podcast wise, then from pod fest.com is where

[00:26:36] Brendan: can go Ghana.

[00:26:37] Would you like a new recommendation for this, for what's going on next? Or do you want to stick with we have we fixed space junk and.

[00:26:46] Mark: I reckon, um, given, given what we've been talking about, what we mentioned last week, why don't you put a pen in that recommendation? I'm going to actually do my homework. Um, but I think also, uh, it might be nice to review the suggestions that you've given me in the listener over the

[00:27:00] Brendan: last few weeks.

[00:27:01] Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So out of, um, conversations with people who hate me, Doug loves movies, dissect the fall of the house of sunshine. We have concerns. Work-life the incomparable game show and sleep over. Well, any of these be regular listens for you. Did I find any new favorite podcasts? You

[00:27:20] Mark: sound an absolute regular listen in Douglas Moody's you had found a regular listening.

[00:27:25] We have concerns it conversations with people who hate me. I had too much of an emotional, a viscerally emotional response to, uh, I certainly appreciated the content, but I found it to totally. Um, yeah, but yeah, definitely used, um, you've given me a couple of really, uh, And still that my, um, my podcast inbox even more so, uh, I now have 90 podcasts, which is good.

[00:27:50] It's a healthy amount.

[00:27:51] Brendan: Um, cool. Um, I got tickets into XOX. Oh, sweet. Yeah, I'm super excited about, do you know what the XO XO

[00:27:59] Mark: is? I know a little bit. Um, but I'm sure. All of us would appreciate being, um, uh, having, having our minds refreshed. It's

[00:28:06] Brendan: a four-day conference here in Portland, Oregon. Uh, it had been going on for, I think, three or four years, and then they took hiatus for awhile.

[00:28:15] Um, it was originally. Uh, crowdfunded from Kickstarter. It was like an early conference on Kickstarter. It's affording a conference about, um, creatives. And so it's not specifically podcasts related, although podcasts are a big part of it, but it's also, you know, artists of the visual and music nature and, um, you know, just people that just want to create an and have a.

[00:28:38] And cherish share love through different mediums. So, um, it's, uh, created by Andy and Andy. I don't remember their last names and, uh, it's, uh, everybody that has gone to it has loved it. And, um, actually went to a podcast meetup a couple of years back that was like tangentially apart of at so-and-so. So that was really fun.

[00:29:02] And, uh, I'm really excited, so that's going to be in September and, um, I will report back and definitely let you know how it goes. And if anybody is going to XO, XO, uh, we should meet up. And, uh, there's also an XOX so slack that everybody's invited to once they get tickets. So hopefully we'll chat in there.

[00:29:24] Mark: Uh, you know how Spotify is like, uh, evil, then it's ruining podcasting and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, um, a bit right. And a number of the podcasts that we are involved in, um, are now on Spotify magic, just sort of a. Different things. I don't know why I said the first thing. We, we, we were never at war with Eurasia.

[00:29:46] Nope. Specifier I, for one, welcome our out Swedish overlords. Very, very, very pleasantly. You can now find a bit rate on Spotify had a couple of podcasts that Brendan and I post. So if that is where you get your podcasts, then, I mean, you know, essentially you're sort of doing it wrong, but also more importantly, And she want to, if you have, um, big, you might be interested in what we're talking about and you want to be able to direct them somewhere that's easier, or you want to be able to play our show through some sorts of smart speaker, like an Amazon device.

[00:30:25] Then there's a really easy way to do that. So you can just search for us on

[00:30:29] Brendan: Spotify. I do get the appeal of just being able to use the same app that you're listening to all your music. And I get that. Yeah. And the, and the interface I played around with it a little bit, um, this is the first opportunity or first reason I ever had to go look at podcasts and Spotify.

[00:30:46] Um, and, uh, you know, it's pretty, it's, it's the same clean Spotify interface. And so that's cool. I didn't look to see if there was show notes and stuff. I assume there are, it's pretty

[00:30:56] Mark: basic, I think in terms of show notes, um, because you know, again, it's, it's not, you know, is a music service. Yeah. Um, I think that there is information that you can get bad, but yeah, I mean, this is, you know, the beginning, um, and, uh, hopefully they'll, there'll be, um, there'll be lots more, uh, interesting shows, email and, and the more podcasts they have, you know, the more that they might want to gear the interface towards this, this podcast mode or whatever.

[00:31:23] Um, as much as I want to keep my podcasts where my podcasts are, I absolutely see that that's not the case for everyone. And people might just want to listen to everything that's audible. Yeah, I'm done with that. As long as we keep podcasts, as you know, I haven't fully drank the Kool-Aid. We want, as long as we still keep podcasts based on RSS, which the Spotify system is, then we good.

[00:31:51] So Brendan, what we reduced the next two weeks where we're going to take.

[00:31:56] Brendan: Yeah. Yeah. As you said in the previous episode, or the robot said, I guess is a little season finale, um, uh, you know, we're gonna, you know, take some time off. It's going to be our summer. And maybe some are fall break. We'll see. And we'll come back for sure.

[00:32:11] With some more podcasts, uh, um, culture discussion. And what does it all mean? But, uh, it's gonna take a take a little time off,

[00:32:20] Mark: which is taking the. The foot off the pedal, just a little bit, um, in the interim, there's still going to be some, some stuff on the feed. So there might be the occasional interview or, um, highlights or, or the extra bits from things like the podcast festival or extra bits of discussion that we didn't have time to fit into an episode, that kind of thing.

[00:32:41] So, um, you should still get those from time to time, but yeah, we're just slowing down just a little bit while, uh, Uh, it does its thing. Cause it's, uh, it's been really, it's been really

[00:32:52] Brendan: hard. Yes. Oh yes. I've heard, I've heard it. And luckily I've been working in a basement, so I haven't had too much of a problem with that, but yeah.

[00:33:01] Mark: So yes. Stick with us. We're not going to commit the Cardinal sin of pod fading.

[00:33:09] Never.

[00:33:10] Brendan: I could put it into, to put out a kind of a farewell or. Um, sorry, I haven't been here kind of episode for podcast playlist, and I just, I never can find the time just I haven't. And I did the same thing with the, uh, cause I, I wanted to do an audio version of my podcasts advocate, network newsletter.

[00:33:30] And so I did that flight two episodes and I have a couple more that are ready. I just can't put them out. And ah, I'm just pod fading is real.

[00:33:37] Mark: Yeah. Oh God dude. The, the, the struggle Israel, um, when I. I decided to change it, what I was doing for the mood elevator I've said to her, go, and just give me a couple of weeks.

[00:33:48] I'm going to be back with a new show. Um, you know, a retooled mood, mood elevator, and it never happened because I, you know, I just, I lost, I lost the mojo with the show. Um, I lost sort of, it became this. This is often the problem. And I think it's, it's a real, it's a real. That when a podcast becomes a chore.

[00:34:10] Yeah. Um, when you don't look forward either to the recording or the editing, I mean, for me, yeah. I think we've moved elevator. It absolutely became a milestone and I didn't enjoy the writing process and then exact trying to read it. And when that becomes the case, you've got to either stop what you're doing or pivot turn around 180 and try and look at it from a different perspective and try and find.

[00:34:33] Refund the joy in what you're doing. And because if you, if you lose the joy, then there's sort of not so much point in

[00:34:41] Brendan: doing it. Yeah. I completely agree. Um, with, with podcast playlist, the writing and editing the, the, you know, getting to the point where it, before I even record was definitely the biggest slog.

[00:34:55] I, I, I. Having I like doing the, um, analysis of things, but it was to articulate it in a way that was both compelling and, you know, had a reason to exist was, uh, a lot

[00:35:11] Mark: of work. I mean, I can certainly say, and I I'm, I'm certain, it's the case of Brendan as well, but this isn't the case with get right by the joy, the joy of Stelara.

[00:35:21] I really enjoy editing bit rate every week. It hasn't always been the case. I've read show I've done, um, with it. Right. And, and I enjoyed sitting down with you and something to our guests, and we're going to talk about, and, you know, so, and I think we are able to make the show fairly relaxed. And eventually it turns into something.

[00:35:42] Brendan: One of the things I love about that, right, is that we can either just have a conversation together or we can have a guest on. And that, that kind of shifting back and forth is really fun. And then also just that, because we get to talk about podcasts and everybody in podcasting is like super cool. That it's always a good.